The Ohio Sci-Fi and Horror Marathons

Spitting this off into its own topic, as it seemed to be veering into a somewhat different thrust. -Joe


Sadly,I am NOT going to this marathon in general protest to,it just not being worth the $40-45 price tag for a VERY not so good,mainstream lineup and no guest. Alien and Aliens have been played to death(Fritz just hosted Alien a few months back).Blade Runner(Fritz is even hosting that this month)has been shown to death and The Wasp Woman is on almost every 50 movie pack out there. Where's Starcrash? Where's Dark Side of the Moon? Where's Night Beast? Where's Liquid Sky? Where's The Incredible Melting Man? Where's Bloodsuckers from Outer Space? It's just kinda sad that more rarities and thought were not put into this marathon. Maybe that was the point? To get more mainstream newbie hipsters who have never seen these. I don't know. Just can't justify the output of that kind of money for a less than mediocre marathon in which I can pretty much not be excited for anything or that they carry almost everything at Walmart.. I just plan on having my own marathon with my own selections on the couch watching actual fun/good/obscure films on that weekend.
And it does hurt me to finally miss a marathon of which I have attended every single one since 1987 but this year is just not enough to get me over there. I really wish it was different but the marathon has finally let me down to an extent where I didn't want to attend. It actually has been a slippery slope for many years now with lack of guests and mediocre lineups(the main reasons I got from many attendees from Cinema Wasteland for many years)but now I have to join their opinion of just not enough bang for the buck.
Hopefully,a summer marathon like the Schlock Around The Clock or a nice lineup plus guests at the Horror Marathon will be enough to bring me back but for now I am sitting this Sci-Fi Marathon out and doing my own sitting on my couch and actually enjoy some REALLY good and fun ones in my own 24 Hour Marathon.
Many people have said that the Gateway Marathon that featured Night of the Comet,Chopping Mall,King Dinosaur,Flash Gordon,Mindwarp(Galaxy of Terror) and Frankenstein meets the Space Monster were their favorite sci-fi marathon and indeed it featured the most "schlocky" titles but maybe those obscurities and schlock titles are what people really want. I know I do. It was one of my all time favorite marathons,too. Maybe something to think about.

Hmmm... I think you jump to an unsupported conclusion there - namely, that the specific films you mentioned are the reason for the favorable reviews of that year's lineup, as opposed to the other films on the lineup. I'll use myself as an example: while I agree that, overall, the lineup that year was a good one, the films that stood out for me were 12 Monkeys, Puzzlehead, The Great Yokai War, Fido, Night of the Comet, and Flash Gordon. Most people who posted their preference for that lineup mentioned 12 Monkeys and/or Flash Gordon, whereas only 1 mentioned King Dinosaur, and none mentioned Frankenstein Meets the Space Monster.

In other words, in coming to the conclusion that the "schlocky" titles are specifically the ones that "people really want," you have committed the Fallacy of Division: Assuming that something true of a thing (the 2007 lineup) must also be true of all or some of its parts (the specific films from that lineup).

Also, Flash Gordon is in a different class of film than the others on your list - I would not call it "schlocky": it had a budget of $35 million (the same as ST: The Motion Picture), in 1980 (around $100 million in today's dollars?).


I think you've made a hasty generalization here. Just because YOU like those particular films you mentioned, and would like to see more of them, does not mean everyone does.

3 last points I'd like to make on this topic:
1) To use the words "fun" and "good" to define the films you'd like to see in the lineup is completely unproductive, since they are subjective terms. Everyone will disagree on what a "fun" or "good" film is.
2) Please correct me if I'm wrong - to sum up what you are looking for in the Marathon experience (at least, for the lineup) is, I think, rare and obscure films, ie. that are not available on video - correct? In case you don't realize, this is pretty much impossible in this day and age, for cinema programming, since almost everything is available on video or online. For example, all of the films you listed from 2007, as examples of a great lineup? EVERY single one, readily available on video. And the list of stuff you were apparently hoping for this year? Starcrash, Night Beast, Liquid Sky, The Incredible Melting Man, Bloodsuckers from Outer Space - all on video. Dark Side of the Moon, I'm not sure which one you're referring to? Also - seeing stuff in the cinema is different than watching it home, alone, on your couch. Hopefully, coming to see these films at the marathon, and sharing them with an audience, is worthwhile.
3) Lastly... the programming strategy has not changed so much over the years as you seem to imply - only your perception of them has. I beg you to look over previous years' lineups, compare them to recent ones, and reconsider. For example, even in the glory days of the Drexel North, those lineups generally had around 2-3 mainstream big-budget films, 2 premieres (sometimes more), 2-5 classic b-movies, 2-3 schlocky but available on video films, and 1-2 truly rare or obscure films... very similar to the more recent lineups.

I do realize most of the ones I mentioned are indeed on VHS and/or DVD but even a little more obscurity of things like TerrorVision,Voyage into Space,Deadly Spawn,Moontrap,Without Warning,various 70s Godzilla films and more would be welcome.
I am also a different breed of animal and have over 22,000 DVDs and VHSs in my collection ranging the entire horror/sci-fi/exploitation/cult gambit. There isn't too much by now I have not seen and seen again. I think I was just hoping for a little more diversity.
Just saddened by this switch in culture. I was even hoping for at least half to be on 35mm for that kind of price tag but I guess that is the way of the world now.

Just to add my 2 cents on this topic...

Night of the Comet, Chopping Mall, King Dinosaur, Flash Gordon, Mindwarp (aka Galaxy of Terror) and Frankenstein meets the Space Monster had never played at the Sci-Fi Marathon prior to the 2007 marathon and all were crowd pleasers. Also Galaxy of Terror did not have a DVD or Blu-Ray release until recently (God I love Scream Factory) so yes most of these are well known titles however they were not repeats from prior marathons.

I think what infra-kid is trying to say is with so many titles out there that have never played at the marathon why do we get repeats of Alien, Aliens and Blade Runner instead of something that has never shown at the marathon?

With that being said I am in a different state of mind these days, in recent years my oldest daughter has been joining me at the marathons and many of these "repeats" she has never seen (especially on the big screen) and I love watching them with her for the first time and discussing them after.

I still hope that one day JASON X will show up at the Sci-Fi marathon and MEGAFORCE as well (I do have the BluRay's for both films if needed hint hint)

EDIT: Just to be clear, just because I want to see movies that have never played at the marathon I still don't want to see Battlefield Earth or WaterWorld

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"If you have GHOSTS you have Everything" - Papa Emeritus II GHOST B.C.

Thank you,Ghost(Tim),for helping me say that. You are absolutely correct that I think there are still 100s upon 100s of sci-fi films yet to play a marathon and that is my big gripe. There are SO many movies not to have played any marathons the repeats are a bit soon. Even episodes of everything from Captain Video to Spectreman to Ultraman to Otherworld would be nice. Remember "Variety is the spice of life". Or should I say it "He who controls the spice controls the universe".

Another big factor was the charging of $40-45 for only 3 35mm prints in the mix.What was the big push to reinstall the 35mm projector if it is barely going to be used? I saw the last 3 lists of films they showed at the 24 Hour Philadelphia Marathons(which I plan on attending from now on) and all of their marathons are ALL 35mm and of the mix,several are sci-fi and I imagine could have been gotten for this marathon including The Gate and The Gate II,Son of Blob,XTRO,Incredible Melting Man,Golden Voyage of Sinbad,Darkman,The Keep,Godzilla's Revenge(Godzilla films has been very much lacking at the marathons for a number of years) and Night of the Creeps.
A showing of some of these flicks on 35mm may have been enough to drag me in in the door.
Their list of horror oriented 35mm flicks are just as impressive and hopefully an eye is kept out for these for the October Horror Marathon which included titles like Dr.Butcher MD,CHUD,Inferno,House of Sorority Row,Toxic Zombies,Last House on Dead End St.,Mother's Day and many more.

Vince, as I've explained before here on the forum, in the monthly podcast, in person, etc., the reason that we raised the general ticket price across the board is that film rentals of all sorts aren't getting any cheaper. And it all depends on the film, the source, and the format. There's no hard and fast rule for titles. Some very nice DCPs cost quite a bit to show. Some cost less. Some 35mm prints are somewhat affordable, but when we dip into using private prints, the rental plus clearances can add up in a hurry (see my story about THE MANITOU earlier in the thread.)

And if you take inflation into account, the cost of a Marathon ticket hasn't dramatically risen since the early '90s. Now, if we still had 800 seats could we charge a bit less? Sure. But we don't.

As far as the lineup goes, once we decided on the Women in Sci-Fi theme, that dictated most of what we booked (which also dictated the film formats, etc.) The composition of the lineup is about what it's always been: well-known classics, a few premieres, some lesser known titles, etc. And if you don't like it, that's perfectly fine. No one is forcing you to attend the event. But I feel like we keep having this discussion on the forum, over and over again. The Columbus Marathon has always followed the same general plan (dating back to the Drexel North), which has worked out pretty well. Each Marathon in each city has its own very different feel and vibe. Like it or not, Columbus isn't going to turn into a primarily '70s-'80s grindhouse-type event. And in some years, those types of titles will be less prominent in the lineup than in others.

But as most people tell us, while the films are a huge part of the event's appeal, it's everything around them (the trailers, the shorts, the crowd interaction, the sense of community) that keeps them coming back. In addition to personal interactions, the surveys that we've taken in the last ten years bear this out as well. Everyone is going to have a certain genre, era, etc. that they want represented more in the lineup. But that's the beauty of the Marathon: the lineup is usually a mix of everything, just as the crowd is a mix of different people from different backgrounds coming together for one or two times a year to experience a live event that's fun.

Personally, I think this is a great line-up. It mixes the old with the new, and it stays true to a theme. Sure, many of us have seen ALIEN/ALIENS, on the big screen no less. However, the marathon line-up is not all about one person's tastes. Do I have the Alien Anthology Blu-ray? Sure. Will I make a point to be awake and in my seat when these show? Absolutely. Part of what has kept me coming to the marathons since the late 80s has been these obvious tentpole pieces. An entire night of obscure grindhouse stuff would wear thin pretty quickly.

Honestly, any of us could list 120 films that we'd want to see at a marathon, but that's an academic discussion that doesn't exist in any real reality (especially when considering theater logistics, budget, rights, print availability and CAPA keeping things above board rather than chiseling around legalities). I trust that Bruce and Joe are on top of things and are doing their best to deliver a reliable, quality slate of programming. Second-guessing specific titles is not productive.

And on the subject of 35mm prints... I'm thrilled that the Drexel has brought back the 35mm projection, but it's not necessarily for the features themselves. For me, the fun of the 35mm projector is getting the amazing trailers and pre-show content assembled by Bruce, and without 35mm projection, this would likely disappear.

If the organizers can get a good 35mm print of something to show, great. But I'd much prefer a good quality DCP (or even a Blu-ray rip) over a warped film print or one that has gone red or otherwise deteriorated. For the most part, I have been happy with the presentation of the films in the past years. The number of film prints influences my decision to spend the money on the event than does the actual line-up and other ancillary material that I know they'll show.

I understand people having their preferences for different films and the desire to see titles that have never played a marathon before, but I can't understand why someone who's been going to every marathon since 1987 would suddenly spit in the face of the marathons now when attendance is constantly in flux. It's been almost 30 years of marathon ups and downs and changing venues and exhibition formats and after attending dozens of marathons you decide that the individual titles are more important than the marathon as a whole?!! For shame. And I don't want to assume anything about people's financial situation, but surely if you can afford 22,000 DVDs and blu-rays you can afford $40 for 24 hours of entertainment!

I live in Chicago and my work/life situation has made it impossible for me to make it to the Columbus marathons for the last 3 or 4 years now and I can't wait until the day I can make it back (hopefully in October). Infra-Kid, I've been reading your posts for years and you clearly favor obscure and grindhouse films to more mainstream films which is fine. But those alone are not enough to fill seats and make the marathons profitable enough to continue on. Last year in Chicago the Music Box celebrated their 10th year of horror marathons with an almost all grindhouse/obscure movies (most on 35mm which was nice). Guess what? They had their lowest attendance ever! It was the first time since their first marathon that it didn't sell out and they were even offering Groupons. No one cared. Fact is you need some more mainstream films to get bodies in the door. I hope you reconsider withdrawing your support for this year's marathon. Bruce and Joe and the Drexel staff work really hard to make this all happen and it would be a shame if a long time supporter sat it out for such a petty reason.

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"I came here to chew bubble gum and kick a**. I'm all out of bubble gum."

As you can see from my above approval of this year's lineup, I am not a grindhouse or that much of an indie guy.
On the other hand I do like classic films, less known flics (Moon) and other finds that are out of the mainstream. I have a difficult time with films that have been played into the ground (Half of Boston's lineup this year, MORE than half of Cleveland's) But that is subjective. I realize that the fact that I haven't seen something in a theater in more than a decade doesn't make it someone else's joy or other than a tiresome repeat.

So why doesn't a crit of repeaters apply to Columbus 2015? As Joe says there's a deliberate diversity and with the exception of one film that I'm not very fonda, I am looking forward to seeing the blockbusters on the big screen for the first time in a decade or so.
And although Infra-Kid's views the bulk of the films being the grist of Walmart, the ones he would prefer are also pretty much available. He's not attending this year. If the choices were Chopping Mall et al, I would not be. meatfish speaks very well on why this selection works for a diverse audience.
And luckily Shock (and Schlock?) Around - - is there for those who like other selections.
Addendum: I would love the equivalent of Boston's Festival in Columbus. But even with a larger, denser fan base, they have problems getting an audience for originals, indies and preview showings. It's what meatfish is talking about. too creative and the theater is too empty.

Luckily I have a 250 film fest in Cleveland (CIFF 3/18-3/28) to attend & pick genre & non-gen films to watch. No oldies alas.

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Thar’s only two possibilities: Thar is life out there in the universe which is smarter than we are, or we’re the most intelligent life in the universe. Either way, it’s a mighty sobering thought. - Walt Kelly

I was going to stay off here but feel compelled to respond to Kevin,Meatfetish and Pogo.
My decision was not made upon a reason but REASONS. Bad,mainstream lineup,lack of guest(s),lack of 35mm prints,high price tag for very little,etc.
I wanted to come but this year just set me off that very little care was given to give people their money's worth. There are rampant amounts of comic book shows,horror and sci-fi conventions,other horror/sci-fi marathons,late night showings(Bad Movie Night,Dr.Bob Tesla,Fritz The Nite Owl)and more that have my attention and charge WAY less than $40-45 for ample amounts of fun and entertainment. It is not my fault this lineup is sub par(at least in my opinion and several others who I have heard from who are also not attending because of it)and Joe's response to my posts included "..no one is forcing you to attend.." among other comments. Doesn't sound like someone who cares too much about my purchasing power/ticket sale. And I am not the only one. I have heard similar from about 12 or so others who have said the same thing. It was the same thing I hear being a dealer at Cinema Wasteland. No guest(they got used to Romero,Campbell,etc.) and shabby lineups won't bring them down from Mansfield,Cleveland,etc. And that was for less money which they definitely made point of.
Even during that weekend of the Horror Marathon,Fritz The Nite Owl's Double Chiller Theatre that night of Beetlejuice and Trick or Treat over at Studio 35 beat out attendance at the 24 Hour Horror Marathon. Numbers at the Cleveland marathon beat out the 24 Hour Horror Marathon as well. I also heard that the Chicago marathon that weekend also had close to 1000 attendees. This doesn't sound like an accident. The 24 Hour Horror Marathon in Columbus was low man on the totem pole. I don't know all the whats and whys but it is evidence.
I have loved going to the marathons since 1987 and somewhere recently the passion from them is lacking. Maybe I just have glory memories of the Drexel North and the smaller marathons just aren't measuring up. I don't really know. I just can't play ball anymore and blindly pay out cash for it. And I am not spitting in the face of the crew putting them together but rather allowing them to earn their keep by making themselves rise to a better tomorrow and quit resting on their laurels and start bringing in guests and REALLY nice lineups and WAY more 35mm prints. From now on the marathons will have to earn my attendance,not just expect it. There are 100s of conventions,late night movies showings,etc. that are just a drive away and even shows like Dr.Bob Tesla which are totally free. There are also ample chances to bring in guests upon guests. How about Lloyd Kaumann and the Return to Nuke'em High movies? How about Night of the Creeps with director Fred Dekker? How about Starcrash with Caroline Munro or Marjoe Gortner?
Also,I wanted to touch upon the Portage vs. The Music Box marathon war over in Chicago. I was watching the various posts about the 2 marathons over in Chicago at both theaters and it did seem that people preferred the Portage marathon to the Music Box which DID have a way better lineup which included gems like The Deadly Spawn,Blood Diner,etc. and actually had guests and was still only $20. I would have to give them a round of applause for this. I can't really fault the Music Box either cause their lineup wasn't all that shabby with 35mm showings of Nightmare,Curse of the Werewolf and more,just obviously people went for the better lineup,guests and cheaper price tag.
So,to sum up,I still can't put myself on the block for the marathon at the Drexel. It just has me very disappointed that I actually don't want to go,to what used to be one of my favorite things. It really does hurt me deep inside. That isn't my fault. They just let me down in a big way and I hope all who do attend can either see the big picture or at least enjoy themselves however they can. Hopefully,after all this the horizon will be brighter and the Horror Marathon will knock my socks off. Otherwise,I'll be off to Philly,Chicago,Cleveland or wherever else to spend my money. Maybe even Fritz. Fritz The Nite Owl is a local icon and actually had total sell outs at his showings of F13th and Alien back months ago. I was very impressed. Even Bad Movie Night over at Studio 35 has VERY large crowds showing rare fare like The Brain,Intruder,Psycho Cop 2,etc. I guess the obscurity debate will keep us pondering.
But until then,"try to enjoy the daylight.."

I don't think anyone is questioning your decision that the Ohio Marathons have evolved into something you do not personally enjoy. What I take issue with, and judging from the responses I think I can speak for most other people here, is your inference that YOUR sudden shift in taste is purely the fault of Bruce, Joe, the Drexel, and everyone else involved in the organization of the marathons.

I don't know what your giant wall of text and attendance statistics for events that aren't even remotely similar or in direct competition with Ohio marathons is supposed to inspire in the users of this forum, but your argument just seems faulty, especially given the current state of the Marathons. That is, new theater management, commitment to early announcements, etc. The Ohio marathons are more stable and reliable now than they have been in over a decade. I'm sorry you think it costs too much, but I believe the majority opinion feels we are getting our money's worth.

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Aliens? Us?
Is this one of your Earth "jokes?"

I understand the argument that a Marathon (or any revival screening) should strive to show something off the beaten path. There have been criticisms here and elsewhere about Boston showing a number of classics for their 40th Anniversary edition this February. Fair enough if you feel that way, but, there are always new Marathoners who haven't seen the classics on the big screen.

However, just showing something rare is no guarantee of a turn-out, either. Even in L.A. with its huge built-in cinephile fanbase, booking something cool and rare is no sure bet. I've seen really cool stuff that hasn't been shown for decades and only a handful of folks show up. There can be such a thing as too willfully obscure. And, with a Marathon you are catering to hundreds of different tastes. No, you don't want to book a lineup of only the tried and true perennials, but, if you venture too far, you risk alienating people who just want to see a good solid schedule of science fiction pictures. It's always a balancing act. But, for a long-time Ohio Marathoner to skip THIS line-up?? Makes no sense. There are enough cool things on it to sate any true fan.

35MM? Sure, while 'supplies last' that's true. But, the realities of today's distribution system is that you can't be too obstinate about it. You want to go after interesting films, not just what is available. One can't just find a dozen random 35mm prints of sci-fi films and hope that it makes for a compelling lineup. That's doing things backward. IF you happen to come across a rare 35mm copy AND it fits the overall schedule, sure it should get priority over some old warhorse on 2k digital, but, it shouldn't be jammed in the schedule, either.

$40-$45? In today's world that's still a pretty darn good return on your entertainment dollar for a WHOLE DAY of viewing (and $20 less than Boston charges)! People in big cities are forking over $20 for 100 minutes for the 3D Imax of the latest crappy sequel to a reboot. If $40 isn't worth your time, not to mention the PRICELESS joy that Bruce's marathons have given you over the years, well, there's nothing that can be written that will.

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Long Live the Orson Welles Cinemas

Well said LA. I've already said my peace about this, but I must address/correct a couple of points Infra Kid made about the Chicago marathons.

1. The Music Box seats about 750 and the Portage about 900 people and neither of them sold out last year so it would be impossible for it to ever have 1000 attendees. I'm not sure what the numbers were at the Portage but the Music Box was about 600.

2. Personally I think both Chicago theaters had disappointing line ups but for different reasons. Based on titles alone, the Portage marathon had a couple more crowd pleasing classics than the Music Box. But the Portage also had 4 films that had played their own events over the last 10 years (usually as triple features) and it was at least the third time Day of the Dead had screened in about 12 years.

3. The Music Box had booked Chopping Mall and Jim Wynorski as a guest but the Portage organizers stole both a week after the Music Box started advertising. I don't know all the details but it sounds shady.

4. The Music Box played one laserdisc (?!) The Borrower with John McNaughton as the guest (he's tired of screening Henry so he asked them to play this instead). And 1 DCP: Dead Snow 2 local premiere. Everything else was screened on 35mm. The Portage only had 16mm and digital projection that looks terrible at that theater as there's no DCP capabilities (the Patio where the upcoming sci-fi half marathon will be looks beautiful with DCP projection). They also wouldn't say what was digital and what was 16mm before hand.

5. I can't say which marathon did better, but I do know the Portage folks are way better at social media. Both had a obscure movies but Infra-Kid you kind of make my point for me if the Portage did sell more tickets or had more vocal support. The Music Box had nothing but obscure and older titles (Audition and Nosferatu being the most mainstream). The Portage had Day of the Dead, Black Christmas, Tenebrae, Cemetery Man, Trilogy of Terror (which I consider them all to be fairly mainstream for most true horror fans). If the Portage sold more tickets, and you yourself say they had a better line-up, then what exactly is the reason Joe and Bruce shouldn't get some mainstream films?

6. I chose to go to the Music Box last year and not the Portage. Most years, I've done both but I was working 70 hours a week for 3 weeks last October and I chose the one marathon that had 35mm projection. If the Portage had 35mm I would've gone, because they did have the better lineup. All of my friends skipped it too for the same reason.

7. Bruce and Joe have all those amazing trailers and shorts each year-you should go for that. Neither Chicago marathon plays many trailers.

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"I came here to chew bubble gum and kick a**. I'm all out of bubble gum."

Well,my Facebook message from The Massacre claims "Generally a 1000". Fudging the numbers?
Also of note,marathoid Tim Martin programmed his own sci-fi marathon this weekend with titles like Hangar 18,The Black Hole,The Giant Claw,Megaforce,Capricorn One,Chopping Mall,Westworld and others and somewhat proved my theory that even the rolling populace of the marathon can program better lineups than the actual marathon. It kinda speaks volumes. If they had programmed his lineup at the actual marathon,I'd be there in a second.