The Ohio Sci-Fi and Horror Marathons

if you can watch this, you can watch anything

http://vimeo.com/26129652

About on the same level as Two Girls One Cup.

glad to say i've never seen that, but i guess i never have to if i created something similar

It's not my fault most people don't know what funny is.

So, rather than continue to clutter up the Post-Mortem thread, I thought I'd write a bit about "A Serbian Film" and where it bothered me.

If you go back through this post, you'll see that I was one of the folks who argued for its possible inclusion. I didn't specifically want it, but I thought that it was a bad idea for people to ask Joe *not* to include it.

Having now seen it, I still maintain that Joe and Bruce had every right to show the film. But I do question if it was the best possible film to include.

"A Serbian Film" is horrific, no question. It is hard to watch. It includes really disgusting imagery, and shows people doing truly terrible things. It is absolutely a horror film, and in that context, it should be a possible inclusion in the Horror Marathon line-up.

Do I think it goes too far? Yeah, I kind of do. I think that there are things that are better implied than shown. I realize I'm a bit prudish here, but that's always been my take on things. Oh, I like over-the-top gore from time to time, but an implied death usually hits me harder than lots of the red stuff.

One thing I have noticed with "A Serbian Film" in particular is the difference between being a parent and not. Most of the people who seem to have the biggest issues with the film are those with kids. Most of those who seem to be more able to say "Eh, at the end of the day it's just a movie" aren't. I hate to play the "If you had kids card," but it is absolutely true that having a child does change your outlook on things. There are many things that didn't bother me before I had kids that really bothers me now.

With "A Serbian Film", one thing that got me was the idea that not only do I not want my daughters seeing that movie for many, many, many years, if ever, but the very fact that it was a part of the line-up makes it that much harder to argue with my wife that it would be ok to bring them.

So, yeah, I'm on the fence. On the one hand, I really do want to say that it's ok to include movies like "A Serbian Film" and "Martyrs". On the other, I do wonder what it does to the accessibility of the event as a whole.

I'm not in the camp that is completely willing to condemn the existence of "A Serbian Film" and other films of it's like. But I know that I really don't need to see another film that takes it quite there.

And oddly, it does have something to do with *why* "A Serbian Film" is considered extreme. Because while I found "Martyrs" extremely hard to watch, it had less to do with the gore and more to do with the utter nihilism of the film. The scenes where she is being punched are actually harder for me than the more over-the-top tortures.

So, maybe in the case of "A Serbian Film", it has more to do with the use of the sexuality - and the application of it to children - that pushed it too far for me.

I'm not entirely sure. What I am sure of is that before watching "A Serbian Film", my wife planned to go home following it and then come back in time for "The Beyond". After it, she went home, said she was not coming back, and suggested she meant *ever* coming back.

With a reaction like that for members of the audience, it can be hard to make our attendance grow.

[quote="AEinhorn"]What I am sure of is that before watching "A Serbian Film", my wife planned to go home following it and then come back in time for "The Beyond". After it, she went home, said she was not coming back, and suggested she meant *ever* coming back.

With a reaction like that for members of the audience, it can be hard to make our attendance grow.[/quote]

This is a great quote, and sums up how I feel about these kinds of movies. I can definitely take a film like A Serbian Film, but the existence of these kinds of films in the lineup is the reason I only take my very small group of hardcore friends to these events instead of folks like my girlfriend, who probably would have reacted similarly to Mr. Einhorn's wife.

To quote the famous line from Cecil B Demented "Family is another name for censorship". Seems like it is becoming true. I guess wives and children make men become one of those "yes, dear" stereotypes. I don't have a wife(but do have a girlfriend) or children but I can honestly say I would never let ANYONE dictate what I watch. Without that freedom,what are we?

Please don't put words in my mouth. My wife and children do not prevent me from watching any film. They change my perspective on what I watch, yes, and they affect when I watch what I watch.

That's not the same thing at all.

And I was also thinking in terms of the next generation. I *want* to be able to share the marathon with my wife. I want to bring my kids. It's a harder sell now.

And I'm still not saying that "A Serbian Film" shouldn't have been shown. I'm just saying that it cost the marathon at least one attendee - possibly for good.

My wife chimed in while I was writing this to point out that the debates that occurred on the forum are also not known to the general public. We have probably 40 active users of the forum. That's a relatively small population of the audience. My wife says that, despite knowing that I had been a part of debates about the film, and despite Joe's warning before hand, she had no idea that there was child rape and torture in the movie. Had that been made more explicitly known to her beforehand, she would have left before it started and come back later as planned.

She still thinks that films containing such content have no redeeming value, which she and I differ on, but she says she would be less angry and offended.

http://www.electricsheepmagazine.co.uk/features/2010/12/05/a-serbian-film-interview-with-srdjan-spasojevic/

Another excellent interview with director Srdjan Spasojevic.

Aaron, I totally understand why your wife would be offended by the content of Serbian Film. This is why we tried to be fairly upfront about the potential offensiveness of the film. You've been to enough Marathons to know that we don't often make announcements warning the audience about extreme content, so our take was that making several of them before the film was, in effect, serving ample warning to anyone who might not want to see it. Like it or not, there are audience members who don't want to know what happens in a film, so we weren't going to go into detail about some of the more gut-churning material.

But I would also point out that Serbian Film has been listed as a possible premiere for the past two years, and that we emphasized its graphic and notorious nature in the media and web released when we finally booked it. Note, too, that we hardly ever go out of our way to so explicitly plug these aspects in these venues. Any event like this carries a "buyer, beware" mark with it, and if a film is advertised as being very controversial, it's oftentimes up to the potential patron to read up about it beforehand.

Honestly, I was as surprised as you that she didn't know the content. I'm just passing on what she said as I was writing.

And to be fair, I probably should have warned her better. But considering I expected her to leave before it began, I didn't think I had to.

Wow, I actually find myself wanting to defend Serbian, never thought that'd happen. I didn't enjoy the film, in the respect that yes it was a disturbing, horrific film, but I respect it being shown. Before I go further, no I don't have kids, I have a stepson though, and my husband attended with me. It's usually me that wants to watch the disturbing stuff, and he tolerates most of them with me. Did he enjoy the movie? No, does he want his son to watch it? No. Nor do I, but we're adults, who are capable of distinguishing real life from fiction, as well as searching out info about something before we watch it. (no offense to Mrs. Aeinhorn) I don't like things that are depicted on the news or shown in documentaries about 3rd world countries either, these things are sometimes horrific and terrible. These things are real, and I can't hide my head and pretend they don't happen. This movie for all its explicit violence is thought provoking - my rule for a good movie is does it inspire great conversation? We had a two hour drive back home after the thon, and most of it was spent discussing Serbian, the hubby and I had different takes on what it meant etc. It may not have been pleasant, but I'm glad I watched. I wouldn't want to sit through 24 hrs of movies like this, but I'm not opposed to the occasional one thrown in. I'll come to the thon, regardless, and any new people I bring, I make sure they're prepared, and know what they're getting into. I expressly told my husband he could go outside or to the car, etc during Serbian, he knew what it was about, and he sat through it. He and I both will be back next year, regardless what is booked.

You know, that phrase almost always comes with a statement almost entirely designed to give offense...

Sorry, but there was, in fact, offense taken by my wife. She is more than capable of distinguishing a movie from reality. And she's a big fan of horror films. The first few dates we ever went on involved seeing horror movies. She's been attending the marathons since 1998, and when she's left, it has always been about needing to sleep in a real bed, not content of the films.

Regarding the warning, there's a real delicate line. I understand Joe's point about not wanting to issue too many spoilers - but her argument was that the warning was too generic. She points out that she watches films like "Make Them Die Slowly" and "I Spit On Your Grave." Her problem with ASF was specifically the child-issue, and while we get Joe's position, she simply didn't take the warning seriously enough - but based on the synopsis on the flyer, she had no idea that the child-torture/rape was a part of it. Should it have been her responsibility to search out the details?

That's debatable. Do you look for spoilers before you go watch every movie? I try not to. Simply being told "it's intense" isn't enough to scare her off, so why would she look for the details in advance?

I want to reiterate: She isn't a wuss. If this was "Saw" or even "Martyrs" (which she missed last year, but that was because someone had to go home to be with our kids, not because she was scared off by it), she wouldn't have had the issue with the film.

Finally, (quoted from an IM she sent me while I was writing this) "I'm really pissed off at the comment about distinguising real life from fiction. I'm an RN - I had to f***ing study the real life that s**t is based on. It's not like it's something that has never happened - there was a toddler at Children's with that type of abuse in the pediatric ICU when I was doing clinicals there. And like you said, it could have been handled in a less graphic manner."

[Edits are mine because I don't want to break the rules of the forum, not hers. She swore in the IM.]

Look, I'm still not saying it shouldn't have been shown. Neither is she. But she was severely upset by the experience - to the point that she is far less interested in ever returning. And I'll have to fight tooth-and-nail to bring my kids in a few years.

Where is the balancing point? I don't know. I don't claim to have all the answers. I'm only bringing up the question.

I also want to reiterate that, overall, I had a really, really good time this year. There was just the one film that disturbed me - and disturbed to the point that it really was hard for me to get back into enjoying the event.

I'm happy to continue to discuss the merits/flaws of the movie. I'm happy to talk about whether it adds or subtracts to the marathon experience, and if it (or any other film) is an audience draw or an audience repellant. But I'm going to continue to be offended at anyone who says that I - or my wife - is a wuss, or is someone who isn't hardcore enough to attend the marathon - or that we're incapable of distinguishing film from reality. We're both grown adults who really like science fiction and horror. We watch sexually explicit films. We watch really violent films. I've been attending Marathons since 1989 - this was my 34th marathon from those listed on the Hall of Marathonia - and I'm a big promoter and fan of the event. I post ads (free of charge) on my site, I purchase ads in the program, and I push the heck out of the event.

If because we objected to one film, we are now the kind of people who don't belong at the marathons, then I have to ask who does belong, and what future does the marathon have?

I am disappointed that this film has created such a stir that it has caused us all to turn on each other and call each other out. It's not fair to say to someone that they should not have reacted the way they did to this movie. I think Dave summed it up well when he astutely pointed out that it's not only difficult to get through, but also difficult to "come back from." No one should be held in judgement for being completely turned off by this "bumpy part of the ride."

I am quite fascinated by enormous differences in reactions this experience has caused. We are all drawn to these events and this board based on common, passionate interests. Yet never has one movie been so divisive, not only to relatively new marathoids, but longtime fans as well.

I don't want to dwell on it, but here is my specific reaction to the film: I was disgusted and horrified, but not offended. I knew about most of the content and was prepared, but watching it all unfold was still worse than I could have possibly imagined. You don't think the film is going to go there, but then it does. And not only that, but it keeps going further. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, can prepare you for watching it all happen. The reason for this, as mentioned before, is that it is so skillfully done that it doesn't look "fake."

Would I recommend it? Absolutely not. But it is still an unforgettable experience that I would not have tolerated under any other circumstances. It falls neatly into the category of "things you can't un-see." And that's why I go to these things: for an unforgettable experience.

While it all hit me on a visceral and emotionally exhausting level, I can honestly say the movie did not connect with me personally, the way it apparently did a lot of you. And before you say anything about reacting differently when you have children, I have THREE. I'm not bringing up that point to say that anyone else who reacted differently is wrong, I just want to mention it because it goes to show that you can't always categorize everything neatly with a red bow on top.

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Is this one of your Earth "jokes?"

I am waitng to see ASF in 30 seconds with Bunnies so I can see how it ends.

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I didn't mean to imply that was the only reason for connecting or not. I was simply noting that, as a trend, the correlation was there. (And I did say that it was something I noticed in general - but I wasn't trying to draw a hard and fast rule).

One thing that several of my theatre professors taught me was that the one great variable you cannot control in an audience is the baggage that an audience member brings. You can attempt to take cultural trends into account, but every audience member is different. The baggage I bring in to a viewing isn't the baggage you bring, which isn't the baggage that the next person in line brings.

Because of both the extreme way it depicted events, and the sensitive nature of the subject, I think it's fair to say that people's baggage on the issue of child rape and torture is going to be wildly different - and having kids vs. not having them is going to be one of the elements in that collective baggage.

Will it be the only thing that affects your viewing? Heck no. And I didn't mean to imply it was.