The Ohio Sci-Fi and Horror Marathons

Stumbled upon David Fincher's masterpiece SEVEN this morning (or "SE7EN" if you will).
I've gotten so wrapped up in my appreciation of FIGHT CLUB and THE SOCIAL NETWORK, it has been forever since I revisited this one. Wow. Even better than I remembered.

Again, this brings up the argument discussed before about movies like JAWS and DRESSED TO KILL which would not be traditonally categorized as "horror," but would not be out of place at one of our marathons.

I'm all for showcasing this early gem from an A-list director in a future lineup.

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Aliens? Us?
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Ironically the marathon is showing Dr. Phibes this year and I maintain that Seven is a modern day retelling (Yes Remake) of Dr. Phibes. I liked Seven and Yes IamJacksUserID Seven could easily be shown at a horror marathon, in fact I think it played at the Cinemark Horror Marathon years ago. I just get annoyed everytime someone called Seven "Original" because it was far from original, just well acted.

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Jaws3dfan®
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Ah, Tim....still chasing the SEVEN/PHIBES white whale.....

That being said, I've long wanted to show SEVEN at one of these events. It's a New Line title, which means Warner Bros. controls it, which means it might be difficult to secure a print (which, in this case, would be optimal for a film that deals in such deep blacks and dark color tones.) But never say never.

Se7en and Phibes share strong thematic elements, but I don't agree that the one is a remake/reboot of the other.

That's like saying that The Lion King is a remake/reboot of Hamlet (which is far closer than the ties between Se7en and Phibes, IMO).

Hey now, the best reboot of Hamlet is, was, and always shall be ... The Adventures of Bob and Doug McKenzie: Strange Brew.

I rest my case.

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David A. Zecchini; Creature of the Wheel, Lord of the Infernal Engines
"Damnati Im Ludum" (VitruvianZeke@att.net)

I will admit Dr. Phibes is not a remake of Seven if you will agree that Andrew Kevin Walker obviosly saw Dr. Phibes and completly stole the idea when he wrote Seven

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Jaws3dfan®
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I will fully accept the likelihood (not that it absolutely happened) that he saw Phibes and used a similar premise for the film.

But using the Seven Deadly Sins (or the Biblical Plagues) as a theme for a series of murders is also not an impossible idea to come up with on your own either.

The films are strongly similar - but it isn't true that every time two creators come up with a similar idea that one stole it from the other.

I rejected that premise for Battle Royale/The Hunger Games, and I reject it here too.

IThe Lion King is more of a rip off of Kimba the White Lion. Plus one can make the argument that Eagle Eye is a "remake" of Wargames.

I don't see how great Se7en is. I find the movie to be very by the numbers. I guess the there was a head in the box. Kevin Spacey was great. Other than that it wasn't that great. There is no way that Se7en is a remake of a great film as Dr. Phibes.

Uhm... yeah... because we all know that remakes of amazing films *coughcoughPsychoTheDayTheEarthStoodStillFridaythe13thHouseonHauntedHillcoughcough* always produce good films in turn...

Again, I'm not saying Se7en is a remake of Phibes. I still think that, while having some thematic similarities, they're sufficiently different, but the argument that because Phibes is great and Se7en is meh, that it can't be a remake, just seems silly.

However the Hitchcock estate was able to successfully sue the makers of "Disturbia" claiming it was a remake of "Rear Window" and the same argument could be made that "Fright Night" was a remake of "Rear Window" with a Vampire twist.

The plot points in Phibes/Seven were extremly similiar, which is fine but everyone involved with the Production of Seven were very proud of their "Original" movie, all I am saying is that it's not all that original.

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Jaws3dfan®
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Which I will freely accept. It's not a super-original concept. It's a concept that has been used before, and will probably be used again. (And has been used in crime novels and comics outside of the films).

It's still not a bad movie.

Hey guys, I never said anything about SE7EN being an "original" idea, though I would argue that it is uniquely excellent and expresses things in a unique way, with a tightly woven script, fantastic performances and one hell of an ending. But that's a separate issue, beside the point. I suppose if things were judged wholly on originality we wouldn't be able to enjoy things like, say, Peter Jackson's DEAD ALIVE (zombies, we get it, been there done that) or (shudder) the FRIDAY THE THIRTEENTH franchise, which began as a "rip-off" of HALLOWEEN (and has even been acknowledged as such by the producers).

It sounds to me like Jaws3Dfan has some specific memories of the film's release and so-called claims of it's originality at the time. I do not have those memories, but any claims to that effect would be false (but, again, a moot point). Didn't someone once say that EVERY story can be considered the derivative of one of eight unique plot archetypes? In this case, just because both films involve murderers who are punishing "sinners" doesn't mean each film is not a uniquely told story.

Back on my original point, I'd still love to see SE7EN at a marathon, and thank you, Joe, for acknowledging that it's not a crazy idea.

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Aliens? Us?
Is this one of your Earth "jokes?"

Thats my point, the producers of Friday the 13th never claimed that it was completly original, I just wish the Producers of Seven would have made the same claim. Again, I liked Seven and would also like to see it again on the big screen. I just found it ironic that IamJacksUserID brought it up just before a marathon that is showing Dr. Phibes, maybe subconsciously you made the connection

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Jaws3dfan®
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I personally enjoyed the film (mostly), and would definitely slot it in a marathon should the opportunity arise, but it's what I used to call a "4 reel" movie.

Most movies come on about five or six (20 minute) reels, give or take. A "4 reeler" has me totally bought into its premise, enjoying its plot, fully entertained by the acting, effects, music, etc ... right up to the last reel. Then at some point in that final act, it takes a turn that just loses me.

Se7en did that to me ... somewhere in that third act, its denouement really just doesn't make sense with where the film's taken me so far. I really hate when I get there, because it turns the rest of the film into one big fridge logic moment.

I have a whole list of movies that kinda/sorta let me down this way. Event Horizon, Dark City, quite a few others that I can't quite think of.

But even given that criticism, Se7en is very well constructed and superbly acted. I'd vote for it in a marathon any day of the week.

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David A. Zecchini; Creature of the Wheel, Lord of the Infernal Engines
"Damnati Im Ludum" (VitruvianZeke@att.net)

While FRIDAY THE 13TH was certainly "inspired" commercially by HALLOWEEN, the film many point to that it was artistically "inspired" by is Mario Bava's TWITCH OF THE DEATH NERVE (Aka CARNAGE Aka BAY OF BLOOD). The wise folks at the Boston Horror marathon showed it there right around the time FRIDAY THE 13TH was originally released (not sure if Bruce B was involved with that decision).

Trailers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHSM5uWDNBM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlhoAn1R6gc

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